What's the Big Idea

MICHAEL: Welcome to What's the Big Idea? I'm your host, Michael Bennaroch, President and Vice Chancellor of the University of Manitoba. Today's guest is someone who has spent his career helping Winnipeg and Manitoba dream bigger and think smarter about growth. Dave Angus is the President of Johnson Group, a former, longtime President and CEO of the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce and a tireless advocate for business-led innovation and collaboration. Dave is also about to become the University of Manitoba's 15th Chancellor. I couldn't be more excited to wrap up Season 3 with him as our guest. We discussed the forces that shape economic growth in Manitoba and across Canada, from trade policy to post-secondary partnerships. I asked Dave how Canada can build stronger economic ties beyond the United States, what kinds of initiatives actually boost productivity, and how we can better match our highly educated workforce with the jobs that need them. Stay tuned for a great conversation.

MICHAEL: Dave, considering your impressive background and experience, I'm really excited to talk to you today about the federal election and the economic landscape that we now face. So, the Liberals were voted in with a near majority, but not quite. And what we know is that minority governments are not generally known for being able to move as quickly or make bold moves compared to majority governments.

What are the challenges and opportunities Prime Minister Carney, and his government will face, considering the current landscape we find ourselves in?

DAVE ANGUS: I will say this, that I'm a little disappointed that it ended up in a minority government, because I know how challenging that can be. But what is going to happen is I think there's a window of opportunity. I think Mark Carney has, probably, two years of parliamentary peace and hopefully collaboration to make an impact. So, I think there's a sense of urgency for this Liberal government, based on the minority situation that they're in, to actually demonstrate action, and I think what's most important for them, because we're in a time of uncertainty, in a big way, largely driven by the United States and the actions of the United States, is what certainty can Mark Carney and his team and, collectively, the federal government, bring to Canadians and to Canadian business and to universities across this country, in terms of the path forward this country is about to embark on and how we can help support that.

Because businesses right now are sitting on decisions, they’re sitting on their money, they're sitting on investment, they're not hiring people because they just don't know where things are headed, even if they haven't really been impacted yet by the tariffs. So, how can this government in the next two years demonstrate specific actions, that is really going to bring confidence to the overall Canadian public and particularly to the Canadian business community? So, that's what I'd be looking for. And I think that's Mark Carney's opportunity. And I think some of the narrative coming from the new Prime Minister fits that bill. There is a sense of urgency, of moving towards a whole new economic landscape for Canada, more international relationships, more investment in productivity, more investment hopefully in universities, and other sort of enabling resources that's gonna allow us to achieve that vision. So, I'm optimistic, even with the minority government, that we're gonna be able to move forward pretty quickly.

MICHAEL: Let's try to unpack some of that. Let's start with Canada's relationship with the United States. Obviously, a key theme of the election. The current United States administration is creating significant uncertainty, and it's happening daily. The latest is a tariff on movies. And this, as you said, is creating quite a bit of market volatility. And the ever-changing approach to tariffs are really putting a freeze on investment. So, you built a wide network over the years, on both sides of the border. You served as the Canadian representative to the Board of Directors of the American Chamber of Commerce Executives. So, what are you hearing from the business community, and how are they navigating this?

DAVE ANGUS: What I learned through my relationship with the Chamber in the United States is that the business communities in Canada and the U.S. are very aligned. And I can almost guarantee you, particularly the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, that they are not happy with what's happening, down in the U.S., because they see the potential economic impact. U.S. business sees us as a very strategic, important economic partner. And we have an integrated economy that they understand, that helps make them better. They leverage our natural resources, they buy them, they add value, and they sell it to the world. There’s a lack of sophistication in the federal government's approach to how they're dealing with tariffs and other types of decisions that they're making, that is not embraced by U.S. business. So, there will be a need for Canadian businesses to maintain those relationships. But we have to diversify our markets. We have to be less reliant on the United States. The United States has been the path of least resistance, and that's been our failure, that we haven't done the work necessary to properly diversify our markets, so we have more control over different changes that happen, like what's happening right now with the United States. So again, business to business, strong relationships with U.S. business. I think that will continue. And that actually brings me hope that we're going to find a path forward here.

MICHAEL: Yeah, and part of what's so challenging is, I think, that integration you spoke about, in fact, a lot of it was planned between the two countries, right? We planned the supply chains the way that they exist. And so, to have them disrupted in the way that they've just been disrupted, I think it's come to a surprise to all of us. But you're right, you know. It has shown us, and I think Mark Carney has said that the relationship has changed and so we have to find a new path forward.

DAVE ANGUS: Well, and it was always based on this continental view to how we, as the North American continent, can work together to be a powerhouse internationally. And we have to get back to that notion. So, think the opportunity actually for our two countries is to renegotiate a new Canada-U.S.-Mexico agreement that will define the rules of engagement and create certainty. And I think American business understands that because we all have assets that we bring to the table, including Mexico.

There's going to be some things they bring forward. There's other sectors that are at risk. You talk about the movie industry, just recently, 100% tariff. But also, softwood lumber will come into play, pharmaceuticals will come into play, the dairy industry has always been an issue for the United States. So, there's lots of discussions yet to be had, but hopefully we can come to an agreement, an agreement that was originally negotiated by Donald Trump.

So, it gives me hope that maybe we can pivot out of this with something that is a win-win, and that we can rely upon, that brings that certainty back to Canadian business, so we can start investing where we need to invest.

MICHAEL: You know, as I look at all the work that you've done. I don't know how you had time to do your jobs, but part of what you did is you were co-chair of the World Trade Centre, here in Winnipeg, and you were a member of the Mayor's Trade Council and a member of Centreport Advisory Committee. So, I know you spent a lot of time thinking about trade. And one of the ideas we've talked about, a lot, for decades, in Canada, is eliminating interprovincial trade barriers. Mark Carney said during the election that this was going to be a priority. And I think, if you think about action he could take in less than two years, we would hope, would be to eliminate these barriers. Why has it been so difficult?

DAVE ANGUS: To me, this is the test of this new government. It's difficult because it's the unintended consequence of this very decentralized federation we have. The authorities that are distributed between the federal government and the provinces makes it extremely difficult to get any national consistency on things. And so, when we look at inter-provincial trade, which is largely regulatory barriers between provinces, you have provinces that are looking at self-interest, specific sectors, industries within their provinces that are advocating for certain regulatory protections, and they develop those, which means we end up with a patchwork of different regulatory barriers. And so, it's become difficult.

And I think it's a test, and I'd love to see a case study on this. How do you effect significant change quickly? Because we've been nipping at the margins on this for a long time. And this is not the first time this has been an issue. It's not first time I've heard a politician get up and say, we're going to eliminate inter-provincial trade barriers, including the premiers. But they're nipping at the margins. And so, they're looking at, here's a barrier. Let's try to address it. What the Prime Minister is saying is on July 1st, we are going to be aligned on inter-provincial trade barriers. It's one third of our GDP, coming from trade, comes from inter-provincial trade. So, it's not nothing. It's significant economically. So, we need to do something here. So, what's the method through which we can align ourselves nationally July 1st? And I think is rip off the band-aid. I think it's federal leadership. I think it lays out what the rules of engagement are nationally. You can talk about some exceptions, but I think we have to carte blanche, eliminate the barriers, and then start looking at different pockets that maybe we want to make some changes on, but it's going be interesting to see how they approach it. And we already have three provinces that have decided they're going to work together to eliminate them. And I'm hoping other provinces hop on board. But I think this is the first test for this new government.

MICHAEL: Yeah, I find it interesting that we have our own protection within Canada, and then we're outraged at what's happening to us, in the United States. And it's the same mentality. You want to protect something. There’s a lobby within your province that is lobbying you to not, because they're going to be protected. But the reality is, it's damaging our competitiveness.

DAVE ANGUS: Well, when you talk to businesses, you know, and they said this for years, it's easier to do business in the United States than it is to do it in Ontario. And it's a self-inflicted wound that we need to fix, if we're really serious about being a global economic power.

MICHAEL: And there's studies that actually show that if you look at some of Canadian trade, there's more trade flowing across the border, further distances, than across provincial borders in Canada.

DAVE ANGUS: Absolutely. I'm going to be really interested to see where this goes. So, first test.

MICHAEL: So beyond interprovincial trade barriers, how important now is it going to be for Canada to expand economic partnerships with markets outside of the U.S.? Obviously, this is going to be important. Mark Carney's first trip was to England and to France. I’d love to hear your thoughts about that, and which markets you think Canada is ready to take advantage of or to be a part of.

DAVE ANGUS: First of all, you know, he faced some criticism when he did those first trips, thinking why are you going overseas when everything's, we have these domestic issues? But I champion that because I think what he brings to the table that can be leveraged is not only international relationships that he has but also an understanding of the international economic dynamics and how strategy can play. I think Mark Carney can open doors for us. And I think that's the first step is the federal government making a statement that we're pursuing new markets. You create government to government relationships and then relationships happen under that. You go business to business, industry to industry. You go post-secondary to post-secondary. You know, the University of Manitoba has a lot of international relationships that are ready to be leveraged in this regard. I think he and the government opens up the door for trade, bilateral trade to happen between some very strategic markets that make sense for Canadian business.

MICHAEL: We, as a university, just traveled with the U-15 to Germany, and it was part of other government initiatives which were taking place that did exactly what you said, open those doors. You begin with those conversations, and then the partnerships take place. Part of doing business within Canada, we've heard a lot about red tape and factors that limit the ability of Canadian businesses to move quickly. And a lot of them sit with government. You served as a member of YES! Winnipeg Investor Council and the Winnipeg Bold Initiative. Both of those were trying to get people excited about big idea projects. And you also sat on zoning committees and red tape commissions. In your career, you've had an opportunity to work on these things with government, yet they seem to keep coming back, over and over again. So yes, there's inter-provincial trade barriers. So, we can think of those as part of the red tape of doing business in Canada, that makes it difficult to do business. But there's other things that government can do to try to make this easier also. What are some of the things and lessons you've learned, and where can governments actually have an impact?

DAVE ANGUS: One of the challenges that I've found with government, and particularly at the city level, which has its regulatory issues, really has to do with culture. And, you know, we talk about the challenges of getting projects off the ground and getting permits and getting things moving for business that are sitting there waiting for approvals and waiting for the red tape to kind of flush itself out. And the problem is that governments, when it comes to economic development and dealing with business, need to look at their role as facilitators, with all the protections that are required there, not as regulators. Because if they're recognized and are being called upon to regulate, to catch, to stand in the way, to actually create barriers that didn't previously exist, then that's where a lot of the issue is. And so there needs to be a pivot of culture, at cities and provinces, and even nationally, in terms of how they deal with business and how they can facilitate positive outcomes for Canadians, which is about growth, it is about employment, it is about investment, and all those elements. And so, I just think there's a cultural piece that needs to change, particularly those government units that actually deal with business, Part of the role, they need to look at it, as facilitators of positive outcomes, not just a catch-ya kind of mentality that I think currently exists. So, there's that piece for government.

You know, we did this, when I was at the Chamber, we launched a Bold initiative, and we did a Manitoba Bold Initiative and a Winnipeg Bold Initiative. And it came out of a conversation I had with a business leader. It was after a provincial budget. We're both on the radio, kind of commenting on it and the question was, what's bold in this budget? And the answer was nothing. It's a typical Manitoba budget. And we kind of took that going, we need to drive more bold ideas, here in Manitoba. So, we did it ahead of the provincial election. We reached out to community, not just business, but other community leaders and said, what's your bold idea for Manitoba? And I was blown away by how many ideas people were sitting on, that they had thought through, that they had researched. They were looking for a channel. And so, the public was way ahead of governments, when it comes to their appetite for bold ideas. And it really underlined the issue. So, my wish for government, the bold idea I would have for this federal government is dare to lead, decide that we are going to lead.

One of the most impactful speeches that I've heard, Michael, in my time, goes back to 2004. Shortly after 9-11, the world was in turmoil, lots of conflict, lots of issues. Kofi Annan came to Canada, spoke to Parliament. And I was expecting kind of a usual speech, but it wasn't the usual speech. He challenged Canada. He challenged us to step up. And one of the comments in his speech was, the world needs Canada. And when I heard those words, I was never more proud to be a Canadian, because what he was really saying is, the world needs who you are. It needs your value set, and it needs you to lead, and it needs you to lead right now. And I think, more than anything else, in terms of political leadership is, we need them to choose to lead, because what’ll happen is institutions, like the universities, the business community and other community organizations will mobilize, because we are starved for it. And bold ideas will come forward and be able to be executed on, because the federal government will make way for it and will embrace it. And I think there needs to be a tone set at the top. And so that's why I like some of the narrative coming out of the Prime Minister, because it is bold, in terms of our place in the world, that we're going to lead, that we're going to build this country. We're going to be a powerhouse, across a number of different sectors. And so, I think that sentiment is going to trigger a number of other things that could happen for this country, because I think we're ready for it.

MICHAEL: So, let's pick up on that Kofi Annan's statement.

DAVE ANGUS: It was 2004. He spoke to Parliament.

MICHAEL: And here we are, in 2025. There is real threats on democracy, globally. And here, we've had an election in Canada where, voters came to two parties, basically. And the parties and their platforms actually came closer together during the election. Nobody complained that this was an unfair election, that votes were stolen. Everybody accepted it, and to the point where the leader of the opposition didn't win his seat, right? A real rejection of kind of maybe that style. It was true democracy, I think, at hand. And I think Kofi Annan was right. I think the world needs more Canada now. And this is an amazing opportunity for Canada to be a leader. And I think, leading politically will have countries and businesses want to do business with Canada.

DAVE ANGUS: I agree, because I think we'll connect at the values level, which I think is significant. Because I think the world used to rely on the United States.

MICHAEL: That's right.

DAVE ANGUS: Can't rely on the United States anymore. Too much division. It's difficult to have trust in any of this environment with the United States. And so, there is a window. There's an opening here for someone to step up. And I think Canada is in a great position to do that. And I hope they do.

MICHAEL: It's a great opportunity now for our politicians to embrace the minority government and say we've got work to do as Canada and we all have to come together for this.

DAVE ANGUS: Well, that's also the test. The test is also the Opposition parties. Why are you there? And boy, if they could ever pull together Parliament, imagine what we could do, Michael, without all of the partisan jabs and all the energy focused on just trying to rip each other apart. Imagine if they actually work together. And that's why I do think we have a two-year window, really, to make a difference and for Canada to step up internationally. And so, I'll be looking at the behaviour of the Opposition parties as well. And I hope all Canadians do and hold them to account.

MICHAEL: It's going be an interesting time, starting with visits to Washington by our Prime Minister, and we'll see how this unfolds. We, in the post-secondary sector, of course, think we're a big part of the solution and the future. And we've received criticism recently as post-secondaries, but we truly believe we're part of the solution. And one of the things all the leaders spoke about, in this election, was trying to get productivity moving again in Canada, a big challenge. We've seen productivity lag in Canada, and as a result, we've seen per capita incomes not grow, as quickly in Canada, as some other countries.

So, the Royal Bank just released a report called Capitalizing on a Highly Educated Workforce. One of the things it said is that Canada actually doesn't take advantage, to the full extent, of its educated workforce, and that many graduates were not ending up working in their fields of expertise. And so, what do you see, in regard to the productivity gap, and how do you think industry and universities can work together to address this?

DAVE ANGUS: Well, first of all, I'll say that the only way we're going to address it is for industry and universities to work together, because they both have a very important role here. And what's required is just better alignment between where we're headed economically, what the jobs that will be available and the skill sets are required to drive our economy, and what's being developed and enhanced through our university system. And, you know, one of the parts of the report that was interesting was this dysfunctional federation we have in Canada, to certain degree. It also lands on universities, in terms of our inability to actually have consistency across the country to collect good federal data, to match it up with labour market information, which we're not very good at either, in terms of how we collect data. I think that's a real early piece that needs to be addressed is, how do we get good data, so we can make decisions, so that universities can make decisions, on how they have to develop and change programming in order to align with where Canada is headed.

But from a productivity perspective, so the talent is one piece, but the other piece is we just need to get more aggressive. Companies need to invest more in productivity. And that's where I think investments in, collaborative investments around research, collaborative investments around commercialization of that research, creates huge opportunities for industry and post-secondary collaborations. I was at a session with one of the senior people from Google Canada. We were talking about AI. And AI is a thing. Trust me, in my business, not a day goes by without talking about the application of AI and how we're going to get there. One of the big pieces to that, and probably the biggest limitation, is skill sets. What skill sets do we require on a go-forward basis, within our company, in order to fully leverage the AI potential? And that's where partnerships with post-secondaries will be important, is to generate those kinds of things.

But here's the other lesson. AI was invented in Canada. We have lots going on, in AI, in Canada. But the U.S. is really leading in it because they're investing in it and they're getting more aggressive on it. And so, I think from an industry perspective, there's a role to play in terms of how we better leverage research, how we better collaborate with universities, in order to bring an economic result.

And so, universities have lots to do, but I also think industry has to also step up. And it's just a natural collaboration, to deal with our productivity issue. And we talked about trade, all the work that we need to do on trade. Let's develop new relationships with other countries. If we don't deal with our productivity issue, nothing's going to happen, because we won't be competitive and there won't be a reason for them to actually want to do business with us or invest in Canada. So, it's a big part of where we need to focus, going forward. And the solution really is ripe for collaboration between industry and universities. I’m glad that report was very well done. And I think the recommendations are ones that are ready for to be acted upon.

MICHAEL: Dave, I wanted to pick up on one of the points you just made, which was about productivity and industry needing to invest more. I think for a long time we've relied on the U.S. So, we may have been innovating but then we take it to the U.S. And you know, I think there's been a number of Canadians who have been writing about this as being a challenge that we need to do more of this within Canada. I think there is a realization now that our relationship with the U.S. is changing, that this is the time to tackle this for Canada and we've already fallen behind. And so, I love your example of AI, and you see China also investing deeply in AI. This is the time to do this.

DAVE ANGUS: It is the time, for sure. So, we'll see how Canadian businesses respond. But the U.S. spends twice as much on technology and equipment than Canadian companies do. And so, we need to close that gap. And I think that there’s a role for government here. I'll give an example. Like even at the province, we're looking at payroll tax. You know, payroll tax collects about $500 million. It's a lot of money. But can we use some of those resources to provide incentives for businesses to invest in productivity gains within their company, to offset some of the costs of this equipment?

Because at the end of the day, if they can increase their productivity and can facilitate greater growth and hire more people, then that money's gonna come back anyway. So, I think we can get creative in terms of how government can play a role in creating incentives, providing focus on the need for productivity gains. But I also think that culturally, you know, as Canadians, we're very risk averse, and it runs through the business community. And that's a big difference between us and the United States. And so, I think we have to get over this risk aversion. And we have to start investing and believing and having the confidence that that investment is going to gain a return. And so, again, you know, with sort of the political lens of the day, with very strong leadership at the federal level, in terms of strong vision forward, and with some government supports and incentives in place, I think we could turn the corner on productivity in Canada and make some of those gains. And again, in collaboration with organizations and institutions, like the University of Manitoba, those will be key going forward, as well.

MICHAEL: So, I love those ideas. I think the whole idea of this podcast, which was the Big Idea, was to bring some of those bold ideas out, but also to talk about risk taking. Right? So, if you're going to follow a big idea, you're going to have to take some risks. And I know we are, as a university, are risk averse. I think it's in our Canadian nature, as you say, so I, love the way that you've characterized that challenge for Canada.

DAVE ANGUS: We always compare us to the United States. The way we view risk in Canada is if you take a risk and you fail, you're a failure. If you take a risk, in the United States, and you fail, you learn from it, and then you take the next risk. And so, I think we need to be able to change the way we view business success and failure that way, that we should be championing people to take risks. And even if it doesn't work out, it'll work out the next time.

MICHAEL: And great place to do it is universities. Fail when you're 22. (Laughter) You've got time to recover.

DAVE ANGUS: You have a long runway.

MICHAEL: Start a business, fail when you're 22, you've got a long time to recover. So, let me just shift focus a little bit because I want to talk about something that's been a challenge for universities, recently. And part of it is looking at universities, and I don't think we've done a good enough job as universities to position ourselves this way. As an economic contributor to the economy. And, you know, we talk about our research contributing, you know, four times for every dollar we spend. But international students have been a big part of the growth of universities, in Canada.

And part of, I think, was part of Canada's strategy to expose Canada to the world, bring international students here. Some of them go back, build relationships. We probably haven't leveraged that, again, as much as we should have. But the previous Liberal government introduced a series of policies that created significant challenges for universities and colleges to recruit international students. And to give you an example, our applications this year fell by 50 percent or 55 percent.

What are you hearing from the business community, of the challenges that this will create in the future and where this is leaving Canada?

DAVE ANGUS: Well, I think the business community has a pretty good view on that because they think long term. And I would say that they are concerned about that policy and kind of the long-term impacts because we have been a country built on immigration, built on new Canadians coming in and helping to build this country. International student recruitment was a huge enabler to attract people from other countries around the world that add value, not only talent-wise, but also culturally and also in terms of having more of an international view and internationalizing Canada. So, it is just bad policy to put restrictions on international recruitment. And I hope we get back to normal levels. I know, reputationally, there’s been, we need to resurrect our reputation in this regard, for sure. But it isn't just about resources for universities. It is about how we're fueling our economy. All the things we talked about in terms of productivity, the attraction of talent, the attraction of high-level talent. We need a broad scope, in terms of being able to do that. And so, I just think it was a bad move by the federal government. And I hope they look at their strategy of being more global superpower, one of the ways to do that is to reach out globally and invite the next generation to come and be educated, in the universities, and hopefully add value back to our economy, as they graduate.

MICHAEL: Maybe it grew too much and there needs to be a lower number, but the way it's done now is it's hurt the Canadian brand and so now we're not focusing on excellence. And I think it’s designing a policy that focuses on excellence and it's the same thing as attracting any kind of talent. You want to attract the best students to be able to come to Canada. And many of them will make their lives in Canada and some will go back home to their countries and then remember Canada and work with us.

DAVE ANGUS: I remember one of the interactions I had with the university when I was running the Chamber, I was invited out to a small group of, I think it was graduate students. They were international students. And so, I was invited as the Chamber person to come and talk about Winnipeg. And hopefully they will stay after graduation. So, I asked the question to the group, how many are you planning on staying, in Winnipeg? And I noticed there were two students from Shanghai that didn't put up their hand. So, I turned to them, and I put my Chamber hat on.

I started talking about all the great things that we have here and, you know, the low cost of living. You get more for your money. You could buy a house and buy a cottage, all at the same time. You know, I just really went into that Chamber schtick, right? And I just remember, I'll never forget this, because the young woman looked at me and goes, Mr. Angus, low-cost housing isn't my dream. (Laughter) And I'll never forget that because of course it's not. And so, we also need to be creating an exciting future for both our graduates, here in Canada, but also the international students, so that they do stay and add value to our economy and can really pursue a very exciting career here.

MICHAEL: Yeah. And I think we've got a challenge to get this right. I hope again, the new Prime Minister and their government look at streamlining the policy so that we do get it right for what's best for Canada. And again, with the situation changing so much with the United States, this is gonna become even more important, in the future.

DAVE ANGUS: Well, I just think there's a natural alignment, in terms of where we need to go as a country, and the role of universities, going forward. Increasingly so. So, I think there's a window of opportunity for you and for the University of Manitoba and others, other post-secondaries across the country to play a very key role, in this path going forward.

MICHAEL: So, picking up on that and now, talking about your next challenge (laughter), in your career and where you go next.

DAVE ANGUS: You didn’t tell me it was going to be a challenge.

MICHAEL: Oh right. Sorry. (laughter) We only tell you that after you’ve come. But I've mentioned many of your roles and you've been so committed to community. You've worked with the YMYWCA, the United Way, the Winnipeg Poverty Reduction Council, and many others. There's too many to list. And when we spoke about your next role here and becoming the 15th Chancellor of our university, you spoke about your dedication to the city and the province and our institution. And your values of the places that you've worked and the values of our institution. And when we announced that you were to be the next chancellor, the 15th chancellor, we were flooded with positive comments.

DAVE ANGUS: I have a big family. (Laughter)

MICHAEL: And, you know, I remember your reaction was, really? (Laughter) Who are these people? And so, we're really excited. Maybe it puts now a little bit of pressure on you to fill the role, but what do you want to accomplish here, and why did you accept this position?

DAVE ANGUS: Well, I accepted it because, number one, it's an honour. When your post-secondary that did so much for you, at the early stages, which is so critical, asked you to play an important role, of course I'm going to say yes, it is an honor. I still didn't really know why I was being asked and so, trying to really navigate what's the expectation of this role. But as I get to know the university more and, kind of get a sense of the strategy for the university, going forward, some of the issues that are faced with post-secondaries but also the University of Manitoba, going forward, I'm just really getting excited about learning more about the university, but also engaging more people in our community about the important work the university is doing and how they can participate, how they can partner, how they can get engaged with this amazing place. When I was running the Chamber, we had the first State of the University address, by your predecessor, David Barnard. And they just did an economic impact study, and it would be great. So, I was expecting this kind of economic impact study. But I was blown away. And I know the audience was too, in terms of the breadth of impact, because it was all about impact. Both economically, but also socially, when it comes to the research, when it comes to commercialization coming out of that, and some of the partnerships that currently existed with industry that were meaningful, that nobody really knew about. It just went on and on in terms of how impactful the university is to our community. We need to embrace that. We need to understand it. And so, my role is to be a voice or to create openings for other university voices, to be able to tell that story. Because the more I get to know the university, the more I realize there is a great story here that needs to be told. And the story is that universities play a vital role in the future of this country, but also our province and our city. And so, I'm excited. I have a big mouth. (Laughter) When I get passionate about something, you can't shut me up. And so, I'll be out there, you know, spreading the word about the university.

MICHAEL: Well, I think that the time is right. I think the time here in Canada where we've come together as a country, unfortunately, due to what's happening in another country. But it's brought us together as Canadians. And I think one of the things that's defined your career is bringing people together and the empathy you've shown. I remember when I first met you and you were at the Chamber, it was, you know, again, how can we work together? How can we get the right people around the table to maximize the contributions? And I think you're the right person for the right time. The University of Manitoba is proud to have you as our 15th Chancellor. We're looking forward to an exciting time, in the future. So, thank you, Dave.

DAVE ANGUS: Terrific. Thank you, Mr. President.

MICHAEL: I hope you've enjoyed listening to this conversation with UM's next chancellor, Dave Angus. That's a wrap for season three. If you want to help us reach a bigger audience, write a review or share this series with your network. And join me for season four launching this fall. We'll unpack more big ideas on topics such as economic reconciliation and how UM is at the center of the satellite industry. Until then, keep thinking big.